2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

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2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Thursday, January 08 2009 @ 02:30 pm ACDT
Contributed by: Brett Northey
Views: 10,317

The Australian Football League's David Matthews today told worldfootynews.com that the AFL intends to stage the fourth Australian Football International Cup in 2011.

Originally the tournament was to switch to a 4-year cycle but during the International Forum staged during IC08 Matthews, head of AFL National and International Game Development, expressed an interest in it remaining at 3-year intervals.

Matthews also suggested that keeping the event in Melbourne may be beneficial, but has now told us that the AFL's Roger Berryman, who was the primary event coordinator for IC08, will be managing a tender process to determine location and timing. Encouragingly the AFL say they have had interest from several international affiliates and other Australian states in relation to hosting IC11.

More details as they become available.

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2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: tinka13
on Thursday, January 08 2009 @ 10:53 pm ACDT

I would like to see it go to New Zealand. Auckland has enough full sized grounds and if supported by the AFL, they also have enough supporters to pull off the big numbers attending. They would also probably get live TV as well, Prime and SKY are good supporters of the game and this could just be the thing to make it go to a whole new level in NZ. South Africa or USA will probably be the AFL's preferances though. The only other country that has strong juniors and seniors is PNG, however I doubt if they are in a position to pull it off!

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Ian Hill
on Friday, January 09 2009 @ 08:39 am ACDT

That's right let's make it even easier for one of the countries benefiting by its proximity to Australia to compete.
I'd like to see it staged in London, New York or LA. Then we'll see how well the southern hemisphere nations go when they have to travel 20.000 kms or so.

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Troy Thompson
on Friday, January 09 2009 @ 08:57 am ACDT

You would have to think there would be significant financial backing (or rebates) from a host city/country, plus possibly a significant naming rights sponsor/s as part of a tender to make an overseas location a possibility.

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Friday, January 09 2009 @ 09:24 am ACDT

I would love to see India (or possibly Sri Lanka) host it. India is ideally situated, equidistant from most AFL playing countries and has great stadiums. They also have no shortage of cash and cricket personalities could be used for promotion and to help them secure big name sponsors. NZ would be great for Aussie spectators to make the trip, but India has more potential to grow the game. Hopefully the aftereffects of Mumbai are gone by the time the next IC comes around, but my feeling is that they'd have to choose another city to make it work.

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: tinka13
on Friday, January 09 2009 @ 11:56 am ACDT

Ian, don't be so negative, it's not about "oneupsmenship", the Kiwi's would love to play in London or New York. We are so use to going and playing in Australia that some blokes have lost interest. If we were to go somewhere in the Northern Hemishere to play the International Cup we would have an even stronger team, as more of our players would make themselves available. Money is not a problem, because we have systems in place now to handle that! Australia has had the Cup 3 times and shows very little interest, it's time to move on, but don't expect the AFL to fund it fully elsewhere, that is NOT going to happen. The country that hosts it, really needs to have its act together! The NZAFL have a strong Board, good Management and Development staff and 4 senior competitions, with juniors playing in most schools now since the late 90's. They are ready to go!

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Friday, January 09 2009 @ 01:01 pm ACDT

Although again, to be fair, NZ have had more support from the AFL in recent years than most other countries.

There are lots of good arguments why it should be in one place or another, but as Troy suggests, it will probably take a bid with pretty big backing to get it to a city outside of Australia - key issues I would think will be finding a place that has:

1. the interest
2. the facilities
3. the attraction to other nations
4. the right climate at the right time of year to suit most nations
5. the extensive support staff needed
6. strong financial backing
7. ease of access

I would think point 1 could be argued against, in that it need not be somewhere already converted.

Point 2 is a restriction, but the USAFL have used polo fields successfully to set up a location, as have the AFL in Dubai for a NAB Cup game in 2008.

Point 3 is important. Without the enticement of AFL matches to be seen, every other bid will start behind most Australian capital cities.

Point 4 is less difficult if the AFL is prepared to stage it during the AFL season, then most current footy countries can probably offer reasonable conditions.

Point 5 is a big one. If we assume that the AFL are not going to fly in a large number of support staff for 2 weeks, then a nation would need to have sufficient numbers for field umpires, goal umpires, boundary umpires, trainers, match day officials, media liaison, etc. You would think some umpires and staff would be flown in, and most countries would probably be required to supply some umpires. But most international Australian Football tournaments so far staged outside of Australia have been weekend events, not 2 week events. So a big ask for volunteers, be they from Australia or elsewhere.

Point 6 would probably make it very hard for some of the less developed nations. I just doubt big companies are excited by backing a tournament in say PNG or Samoa.

Point 7 worries me. How easy is it for sportsmen from developing countries to get entry to countries like the US for a sport few in the US government will have heard of?

I suspect it would be very very difficult for a potential host to be any country other than Australia (that's what I think not what I want), but if it was to be another nation, I think it would most likely come from the US, Canada, NZ, South Africa or a European country with reasonable Aussie Rules numbers already, such as England or Denmark. Ireland would be unlikely due to the AFL's relationship with the GAA. Perhaps India would be a chance with cricket support.

That's just my initial thoughts on it all. I'm very pleased to see the AFL are opening the location up to tender - the event is big enough and important enough that cities should value it and be required to put in a good bid.

You could imagine 10 European countries alone turning up if it was in Europe. And that would be much more convenient for the US and Canada. A big ask for Oceania countries but they have had it on their doorstep 3 times already now.

There also remains the question of whether some form of amateur Australian team would compete. I'd like to see some consideration given to that, but it should be tested first to make sure that it would be competitive with the top 2 or 3 nations, not blow them away. It may be that no sensible conditions could be imposed just yet. How would PNG go against an All-Australian Under 18 side? And would it be fair on the Aussie kids to subject them to that many games against adults playing hard footy for their country in a short space of time? It's probably still 10 years too early, but should be weighed up, and there was some discussion on it already.

We'll hopefully get more information from the AFL about the tender process later on.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: jaylevesque
on Saturday, January 10 2009 @ 04:01 am ACDT

I played for the Revos this past year and really enjoyed playing in Melbourne. I won't speak for all participants but as for myself it was a great feeling to play in the "Mother Land" of Footy. The games were great but the venues that we were privy to was what set this tourney apart for me. Walking in the Parade of Nations, watching the Doggies practice, talking to an elementary school in Warnabool, and attending 4 matches within a two week period was a once or if I am lucky enough twice in a lifetime experience. The draw for me was to play in a country where it would be appreciated instead of being asked "So is it like Rugby" by the locals which happens to me in the D.C. area all the time. I think it happened a few times where locals, who were all so nice, came up to our team and asked to get a photo with us. I don't think that would happen in any other country then Australia. Down there people seemed to appreciate the struggles that each nation made to get there to represent their country. And that is what I have to say on the subject.
P.S. How would Perth do at holding this tourney?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: tinka13
on Saturday, January 10 2009 @ 02:50 pm ACDT

Jay from DC. I live in Perth and the WAFC are very interested in hosting the tournament, people over here will support it in good numbers and you could see 2 or 3 AFL games via the Dockers and the Eagles. I understand people wanting to go to the mecca of footy, but they have had the chance now 3 times in a row. I'd still like to see an organised overseas country like NZ gain the IC first though before it comes back to aussie sometime. I don't know about and U18's Aussie side, why not a full aged Amateur team instead as all other teams are. Who cares whether they win it a few times, it will give all other countries something to strive for?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Saturday, January 10 2009 @ 09:49 pm ACDT

Thanks for your thoughts Jay, always nice to hear from the players themselves.

We've heard before just how strong a drawcard it is to come to Australia - so many players will have learnt the game from Aussies who will have talked about the country itself, and of course the lure of being immersed in Australian football culture - seeing AFL games, seeing state league or even amateur league games, and of course not having to explain it isn't Rugby!

I think that could be an issue. As long as many of the players are having to pay or raise the money themselves, or at least a large part of it, which for many countries that will be most of the players, then the destination has to be a big drawcard otherwise a lot of players probably just won't make the sacrifice.

It would be fine if it was all paid for, then players would just be considering using up their holidays versus representing their country.

On the other hand, if it was in Europe then it would be close to many countries so that would draw more along.

I think Perth would be a fairly good option. The WA Football Commission has previously expressed an interest in the IC and international footy in general, e.g. see Western Australia to target development for Indian Ocean region?. They also are getting involved with South Africa.

In terms of being a drawcard, okay, Perth isn't Melbourne in terms of as many AFL clubs and the MCG, but as tinka13 mentioned, it has 2 AFL clubs so the opportunity to see 2 or 3 games there and have a Parade of Nations, plus the WAFL is an excellent state league, and footy is very much of the culture. Many players from IC08 also headed off across Australia on tour after the tournament anyway.

A similar argument can be made for Adelaide, although the SANFL has not shown anywhere near as much interest in international footy as WAFC/WAFL has. I've also heard the Gold Coast mentioned on a wishlist - it should have 2 AFL sides in SE Queensland by then, plus a lot of development money continues to pour in there, and Brisbane/GC is pretty much the base for AFL Oceania and has been very supportive of Papuan players. Not the same footy culture just yet, but would be a good chance to showcase international footy to a market the AFL is trying to win over.

I certainly agree Melbourne has had it 3 times in a row and while it has been successful overall, Melbourne has not really got behind it like it could or should have. There was real excitement and interest in the two country cities in 2005 and 2008 and good crowds to some of the games, but not in Melbourne itself. Perhaps absence will make the heart grow fonder?

I think in some respects it comes down to how the IC is to be used. Is it to put on the best event for the players (then in Australia is probably better at this stage) or is it to be a showcase for international footy and to try to throw the spotlight on the game in a given area to promote the sport in a given country? So far has been used as the former but in the future?

As for an under 18 versus an open age Australian amateur side, surely tinka13 you don't suggest the full All-Australian amateur side just yet? Depends how you define amateur, but the amateur leagues could put together a devastatingly good side that might prove a bit of an embarrassment just yet for most nations. I suspect even the U18s would be too good - there's many damn fine 17 year olds out there. Australia nominally has 600,000 players (all ages) versus about 50,000 worldwide (don't quote me, that's very very rough).

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: tinka13
on Sunday, January 11 2009 @ 02:41 pm ACDT

Brett, great comments and a very good thought provoking article by you. The Australian Amatuer side could play the World International side chosen at the IC first, until the other nations are good enough. If the Cup is held overseas, this is one way of bringing Australia to Auckland, London, New York, Mumbai, etc without having to have a very expensive AFL team involved. There are so many different options but we must have Australia involved in some capacity.
What does the rest of the world think?
Colin Tincknell
Ex CEO NZAFL

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Troy Thompson
on Sunday, January 11 2009 @ 10:01 pm ACDT

Lets also remember if it happened to be a northern hemisphere spring IC, then that is only just over 2 years away.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Aaron Richard
on Monday, January 12 2009 @ 09:12 pm ACDT

I think if it was held in the northern hemisphere, it would better to hold it late
summer/early autumn, as is currently the case.

Besides giving everyone longer overall to prepare and raise funds, for sides like
Canada, Sweden, Finland etc it means they'd have had 6 months on the
paddock to prepare.

Hold it in the northern spring, and they'd have only just gotten out of the hall.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Aaron Richard
on Monday, January 12 2009 @ 09:24 pm ACDT

OK - having read everyone else's comments, here's my 2c.

Perth

Could be a good choice. Has the facilities of Melbourne, the required umpires etc., but probably would get a lot more public support.

I'm a Victorian, but I think I agree with Brett that the Vics are probably the least supportive of the concept of International footy. When I was a kid in the 80s, they didn't even really believe it was worth worrying with a league outside Victoria.

When I spoke to people from the WAFC on the phone a few years ago, they were very keen to get behind it, whereas the response from leagues in Melbourne has generally been pretty token. A few clubs have gotten behind it, such as Hampton Rovers and Box Hill North, but no organisations with decent clout.

Europe (would probably have to be Britain)

Maybe. Has cricket grounds, but not the number of officials etc (I'm thinking the main problem would be qualified umpires). I don't know if there's anywhere else in Europe with access to grounds to do it.

Also, I think there would end up being less countries at a European IC than in Australia - the big difference being the Pacific countries (a region likely to be the next South Africa) would find it hard to raise the required funds. So potentially no PNG, Nauru, Tonga, Samoa... plus there are hopes for East Timor, Fiji, maybe the Solomons will be there in 2011.

Almost guarantee you that other than PNG, those would not be there in Europe.

North America

In my opinion, this would be a better choice than Europe. Slightly cheaper to get to for European sides than Australia is. Much cheaper than Europe for Pacific sides.

Also - the USAFL already has a big tender process for the US Nationals, where the host city councils get involved.

In fact, I would suspect there is already discussion in the states... Is this maybe why it was brought up in the first place? Or am I jumping to conclusions?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Monday, January 12 2009 @ 11:50 pm ACDT

You aren't alone in jumping to those conclusions, or at least having healthy suspicion of it. That new Florida ground has been considered a bit of a white elephant but perhaps it could still be an option for such a tournament. The USAFL were very pleasantly surprised to have US cities coming to them wanting to host Nationals (note they did do the ground work though in presenting at conferences), so one wonders if it is a spin off from that.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Michael Christiansen
on Tuesday, January 13 2009 @ 09:08 am ACDT

Question - what is the purpose of the IC?

Is it a chance to 'expose' Australia?
Is it for a chance for 'senior age' footballers to have a trip to Australia and perhaps play at the MCG and get to some other games (thus, MUST be concurrent with AFL season in an AFL city - - and for the 'G, in Melb).
Is it simply to represent your country?
Is it to play against nations that you wouldn't normally have a chance to - - i.e for Denmark to play against Samoa rather than Sweden.

Given issues around the 'emerging nations' such as PNG, Sth Africa especially with numbers of participants that may make it harder for other nations to 'keep up', and given the issues of seasonality, of distance etc - - simply running a half way fairly STRUCTURED IC is a big enough task going forward. i.e. whether divisions or not. Whether a limit on nations and 'qualification' tournaments or not.

Perhaps - the next IC really MUST be in Australia/Melb still - - as, only now has the Fed Govt (via Simon Crean) shown an interest (recognition), possibly the next tournament needs to be a serious attempt at 'marketing' and 'branding' the international dimension. And to bed down the 'structure' of the tournament to go forward. Because.......these first 3 over the last 6 years have been during the very early days of Footy internationally.

btw - I'd love to see an IC 'world team' have someone to play - - but, gee, it's a big ask to ensure people have the time to hang around to properly prepare for a game, gel as a team and take on even an amateur Aust team. 18 players on a paddock don't necessarily make a 'team' (overnight).

I still reckon going forward that a youth (under 23s, under 21s or under 19s) style format IC whether in parallel with an open age is a key for future growth - - esp the USA. There must be a carrot for kids playing a bit of everything at school to give Footy a go and maybe represent their country and maybe just be good enough a talent at age 16 on that stage to warrant interest.

Also - - why not the IC senior competition be a continental or footy 'regions' competition. i.e. British Isles vs Scandanavia vs Nth America etc etc..so that on a regional basis you run a national championships with selection in the 'rep' squad the goal?....that way, Finland, Sweden, Denmark and Norway(?) need only pool resources to send a single squad with ideally the best possible depth and the greatest capacity to select a squad (a bit) MORE on merit than availability and means.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: 00Bock
on Wednesday, January 14 2009 @ 01:33 am ACDT

I believe London would be a good choice:

+ strong local league
+ probably a lot of support in organisation
+ most of the locals do know the difference to other sports
+ many European participants, including France, Croatia, Spain, Germany
+ plenty of first class cricket grounds
+ the Oval (20000 plus capacity) has hosted an AFL exhibition match

On the other hand many pacific island teams will struggle to travel that far, but the same counts for active players in Europe. The question is: do we want the IC for the AFL to find potential international recruits or do we want the the IC to honour footy commitment outside Australia? If it's the second, then I suggest the UK. The other disadvantage is that the AFL support in personnel and the draw card of the professional matches and the final at the MCG would be missing. That could be made up by by organising an AFL exhibition match on the day of the IC final. Staff being sent could be also used for the IC games.

Some readers have been suggesting the addition of an Australian amateur side. I don't think that would work. Weren't the (junior) Buffaloes being defeated by a traveling indigenous team? I would suggest only IC winner against second tier State level. Independent of the IC, it would be nice to see how NZ or PNG or SA compete against a U21 NSW state team...

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Mudgee
on Friday, January 16 2009 @ 01:03 am ACDT

Maybe I am a conspiracy theorist, but my honest belief is that the AFL are most interested in the IC as a way of competing against rugby (union & league) in the domestic market. Those two sports have only one advantage over the AFL and that is an international presence. I believe the AFL support the IC as a way to showcase aussie rules as an international sport and win more converts (fans, advertisers, tv time, etc) in Australia. Developing international players is secondary to that - a nice side effect, but not the main point. Just my theory.

If that is the case, I would not be surprised to see the Gold Coast / Brisbane region get the IC. Win over a few more rugby heads and allow good australian media coverage.

If I am wrong (as I have been known to be), and it really is about getting maximum participation, then the US would be a good bet. As someone said, equally easy/difficult for everyone to get to, and they seem to have their act together with grounds, sponsors, etc, not to mention a lot of local teams. I would love to see it in the UK (easier for Germany to make its debut) but agree that this might devalue the tournament by keeping many of the pacific teams at home.

cheers.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Michael Christiansen
on Friday, January 16 2009 @ 08:15 am ACDT

I loved the article reference on WFN about Peter Wilson and footy in Japan - -especially the lack of regard for growing the game in Japan by the VFL and the Australian Embassy. Only for Peter Wilson to discover in 1995 at a wedding, that his ruck rover had gone on to important international business position and had opted for grain contracts worth 10s of millions from Australia rather than Canada because he 'liked Australia'.............

During the IC 08, Simon Crean, the Fed minister for trade and a North Melbourne tragic has been quoted as saying that Australian Football is now classified as an Australian Export. Perhaps, everyone is slowly coming around. After all, unlike soccer or rugby - - Australia IS the global Mecca of this sport.

One feels, the AFL has been fairly reluctant to OVER promote the international cup as it would potentially expose them to accusations of delusions of grandeur. It more seems that the international growth is mostly out of their hands - - but that they are obliged to either do nothing or show some support. The IC in Australia with the burden of travel expenses on the competiting nations is cost effective for the AFL. Colin Carter was an advocate - who knows how the individuals on the commission sit on this issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

We'll know more about the broader sentiment should we see AFL begin really spruiking the tournament - this year showed signs of a greater sense of pride - no doubt the improving standard of some countries, the expansion of competing nations and local rather than expat players in those nations - - the AFL might be on the brink of really running with it. Perhaps that requires the first IC 'graduate' to AFL ranks to become the international 'figurehead'.........(Liam Ackland?, Scotty Fleming?.....come on GC17, pick on in your development squad!!). We'll know then how serious the AFL are about showing off the international dimension. However, for now - - as with the NRL issues with losing players to Europe and England to both RL AND RU - - it's not so bad being a single country professional code. If the NSW scholarship scheme (which began slowly but now is going quite nicely) is a sign, within a couple of years, the international scheme might be working more smoothly and perhaps 10 kids a year might be getting listed from 3 or 4 countries of origin.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Friday, January 16 2009 @ 01:16 pm ACDT

It's funny Mudgee because I kind of have the opposite view. I think the AFL have been slow to throw too much public promotion into the IC because of the reasons Munro Mick refers to, in terms of standard being too low and so not standing up to comparison with other international sports.

What is now getting the attention, slowly, of AFL clubs, and encouraged by the AFL development department, is that there really could be AFL draft picks coming soon. That's what excites AFL clubs and what makes them happier for the AFL to spend money on international footy overall.

Certainly it's a balancing act - promote the international dimension internationally and domestically, but try to avoid comparisons with other sports at this early stage, meanwhile try to promote the real potential of draftees, but again, without raising expectations that the IC players will be those draftees - none have so far and it's really only starting to emerge as a real possibility now as we start to see players developed as juniors move their way into the senior squads - like Fleming and Ackland as mentioned, PNG players like Susuve and James, and hopefully a host of South Africans in 2011.

As the IC gets better, then I think you'll see the AFL cite it more against other sporting codes, and so they should, but I don't think they're getting carried away just yet.

As to whether the US would maximise attendance, I think Australia still does that, perhaps with the US second, just because I doubt many of the Oceania countries would go to Europe as others have stated, but even the US will be a big stretch for some of them.

In terms of the AFL covering travel costs, I just don't think it's something that would win support for their overall international program. It would add AUD $1 million to the tournament cost, and I just don't think the struggling AFL clubs would be too happy about it. The last thing we want is them curtailing the international program. Again, it's all a realpolitik balancing act.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Monday, November 01 2010 @ 12:13 am ACDT

My 2c's worth.
It would be great for the IC's to end up elsewhere other than Australia but at this stage probably there is no other country that could hold it(lack of umpires etc.length of the tornament being the main problems). Although the recent European Championships (a week long tournament) held jointly in Denmark and southern Sweden seems to have been very successful(some fair attendances as well apparently) maybe similar tournaments could be the focus of the various regions at this stage of development of international footy. The upcoming Oceania Champs that were proposed for later in the year is an option for these countries(more manageable numbers).
Possibly another Atlantic Alliance type comp every three years(could have up to 10 or so nations competing now). Any of the USA, Canada, Britain and Denmark/Sweden would be capable of staging a regional comp like that.
The Asian champs held in China(mainly expat comp tho I believe) recently in tandem with the Brisbane/Melbourne game could be expanded to an 16-a-side effort(with a bit of financial support from AFL maybe a comp with Japan, China, Indonesia, and India would be a great first step).
I believe that sort of comp is what the various regions should be aiming for at the present and into the near future. Countries in the regions could start to hold them in rotation with all the countries supplying Ump's and other officials to each comp. Much more manageable tournaments to stage than attempting an IC.

Any estimates of numbers of family and friends who attended the EU10 champs (+ players of course) that could be used to gather sponsorship for such regional comps ( know Croatia camped out,) but hotel accommodation numbers etc. are all valuable ammunition to help promote these types of competitions?
Cam

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

2011 confirmed for next IC, location up for tender

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Monday, November 01 2010 @ 12:25 am ACDT

It should be noted that this is a very old thread, getting close to 2 years, and since then IC2011 has been confirmed for Australia:

AFL targets Queensland and Sydney for next International Cup

IC2011 set for divisions and Women's comp

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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