Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

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Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Troy Thompson
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 10:57 am ACDT

I know that guys in the NZ office of the company I work for recently have been involved in AFL 9s in Auckland. I am not sure how big these adult competitions have been in terms of numbers but you would think that this has added to growth in participation numbers.

I dont really personally like the way the numbers are used. While there is certainly value in both Auskick type programs and AFL 9s etc. The only numbers I really want to know are the numbers of actual games played in each club per year which then can be summed to league participation and state and then country participation. Comparing this year on year to me gives you the growth figures.

You can break it down further I guess for international purposes to having the games played, multiplied by number of players per game, multiplied by the number of periods of play (x2 for two half games, x4 for for quarter games - or just by total minutes played). But again year on year these sorts of numbers to me indicate the real playing participation and growth.

Personally I would like to see a system like this to account for match participation - E.g if a club in 2010 plays 6x 9-a-side games (with a roster of 11 players) of two 15 minute halves and two 15-a- side games of four 15 minute quarters (with a roster of 17 players) - they would have a participation score for 2010 of (6x11x30) + (2x17xx60) = 4020.

In 2012 they played 4 x 9-a-side games (with a roster of 12) of two 15 minute halves and 6 18-a-side games of four 20 minute quarters (with a roster of 20 players) - they would have a particpation score of 2012 of (4x12x30) + (6X20x80) = 11040.

In the end just another number but to me represents the ability to compare in a gross manner a number that will grow if more games are played, more time is played, more players are playing (or less if things are going backwards).

Again i think the junior development and Auskick are also important, as well as games they play which would be counted in such a system.

So as Brett said we look forward to seeing some breakdowns of the numbers.

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 01:26 pm ACDT

Have to agree with you 100% Troy, Some kids putting their name down to have go at an Auskick/Kiwikick clinic at school Friday arvo does not a registered player make.

The kids that turn out over a year is a good statistic to record and keep, but as the round ball crowd in Aussie have realised, the numbers even playing soccer at junior levels do not translate into equivalent numbers at senior level.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist, school kids in about year five or six can see that Including the Kiwikick kids in the number of players(let alone registered players) playing in the country is a total beat up.

Why is it so necessary to fluff up the numbers so much, only makes the guys appear so stupid when the real numbers are found out.

I reckon 15,000 as an estimate of actual registered players in NZ would be being very generous. Smack me down if I'm wrong!!!!!!!!

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: tinka13
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 05:11 pm ACDT

He should have said "participating" not registerred.

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 10:21 pm ACDT

He might have 'meant' to say or should have said "participating players", but what constitutes 'participating players'?

Years ago when I was still teaching, I along with several other teachers in my town decided we would (for something different in Phys.Ed.) teach (and learn) to play European Handball. We actually played a number of games between classes in my school and even played a match against another school in the area. About 50 or so kids took part during the period (a school term) that the exercise took place. I don't think however that those kids could at all be counted as 'participating players' by the 'Australian European Handball Association' if even such an organisation existed in Australia at the time.

Kids attending even a series of Auskick clinics cannot be seriously counted as 'participating players'!!!!!

30,000 'participating players' remains a very questionable statistic!

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 10:33 pm ACDT

When I was in early high school and before a fully associated club was formed in my area, I used to play baseball in a 2 team, then 4 team, social league. Social in that it was all organised by parents. Ultimately it former the basis of the Golden Grove Baseball Club which joined the South Australian Baseball League (and I played a few year in that).

I considered myself a baseballer the whole time, whether we were virtually just playing amongst ourselves, and even thought the season was only about 10 games. I was playing, I was exposed to the game, it kept me interested in the higher professional levels. If they were doing these kinds of stats on us back then I would be offended if we were left out.

So again, IMHO, the stats are quite valid, it's just how you present them and what pre-conceived ideas the audience has. If someone is going in, organising a regular series of training and matches, then by all means I say count them.

The South Africa article with all the details will be up on Monday. People can dissect that in great detail and tell us what should and shouldn't be counted in their opinion.

---
Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 10:45 pm ACDT

Yep! You used the two key words in this debate, Brett. Regular matches.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 11:52 pm ACDT

I don't know the details for NZ yet, so this is just hypothetical, but say it was 8 Auskick style sessions over 8 weeks, each finishing with a 30 min game, say we're talking about 8 year olds. Do you believe that counts as regular games then? What if they joined a club and played 6 games in a season on a Saturday morning - does that count? 4 games? 10 games? Where do you personally draw the line?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Saturday, January 12 2013 @ 11:37 am ACDT

No problem with that, Brett, count all those sessions, all legit, but lets assume they get about 30 or so kids out for those sessions/games over the 8 weeks, but 1250 unaccounted for 'participating players' divided by 30 amounts to 416 seperate 8 week Kiwikick sessions across New Zealand in the year.

400 plus Kiwikick clinics?????? very questionable. more than one every day of the year, at least 2 trainers at each session, AFL NZ got 800 Kiwikick instructors working every day of the year? Ya Reckon?

Or are the 30 kids that turn up each week counted as 30 x 8 =240 players even tho they are the same 30 kids. If that is the case then that is fluffing up the numbers.

Only 30 kids go on to join a club (not 240) if the clinic is successful.

These sort of quoted numbers are just handing the anti-international footy dinosaurs enough ammunition to blow you and all the promoters of international footy to kingdom come!

30,000 'participating players' stands out like dog's balls as FLUFFED up.

Understand I'm not taking potshots at AFL NZ here, its the top brass of the AFL(ruling world body) that is the target.

For F Sake 10 year old kids can see the numbers just don't add up!!!!

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Saturday, January 12 2013 @ 11:43 am ACDT

That should be 12500 unaccounted players, I've left off a zero, instead of adding one on.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Saturday, January 12 2013 @ 12:13 pm ACDT

Yes it would definitely be fluffing up the numbers if the same kid going to 8 sessions was counted 8 times. We totally agree on that. But I don't think that's the case. So perhaps you'll be pleasantly surprised if we can get hold of the specific data.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Saturday, January 12 2013 @ 12:22 pm ACDT

Here's a sneak peek at the South Africa data. About 18,000 primary school kids participate (actually a bit more, but let's keep the maths simple), across 18 notional centres. So 1000 per centre. Each centre consists of 4 primary schools, so on average there's 250 kids per school involved. The age groups are 7, 8-9, 10-11, 12-13. So 5 groups, that's 50 kids from each group, so if maybe 1 or 2 whole classes play at each year level across 4 schools across 18 centres, there's 18,000 and that's a lot of people being exposed to our sport. It's run by 72 volunteers.

But best we hold our horses and discuss those numbers once that article is released.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: tinka13
on Tuesday, January 15 2013 @ 02:25 pm ACDT

Lets get back to the article, do you believe NZ can sustain an AFL side in the near future? Lets look at the facts?; you have 4 million people, 1 million in Auckland (where the game is biggest). You will need to have at least 10% (400,000) of the country interested in following the game to some degree and at least 10% (40,000) of them, interested enough to become paid up members. Sponsors would be mainly common to Australia and NZ with a few locals.

Can this happen, is the AFL serious enough to invest for 10 years or more. There has always been a belief, that if you are not expanding, then you are declining? Wellington has good ground, but Auckland doesn't - everything cost heaps!

I look at it this way, we share Rugby, Basketball, Soccer, etc with NZ sides, so some day its going to be AFL as well. The sooner we plan and get serious about it the better and Melbourne is struggling supporting 9 teams. Should it be the FAR Eastern Bulldogs or the KIWI KANGAROOS?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: pants
on Wednesday, January 16 2013 @ 06:54 am ACDT

It would have to be in Auckland

I've always said, the AFL should help re-develop Western Spirings and there's been some promising news regarding the re-allocation of Auckland's sporting faciltiies.

The main point is moving speedway out of Western Springs and delevoping Western Springs for Test Cricket as Auckland doesn't have a decent test cricket venue.

If the AFL had any vision, they'd contact Auckland Council and cough up some cash to make it happen.

Here's the link: www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/auckland-city-harbour-news/8089425/Warriors-move-on-the-cards

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Wednesday, January 16 2013 @ 04:57 pm ACDT

Hey Tinka,

I understand the sentiment but I'm not sure suggesting "FAR Eastern Bulldogs or the KIWI KANGAROOS" endears international footy to a lot of supporters in Melbourne!

Definitely thought the AFL will need to ramp up its investment in NZ if a viable club was to be based there in anything like 10 to 20 years. But the trajectory of effort/spend over the last 3 years has been pretty good - thinking the Hawthorn committment and HANZ Up and now St Kilda and the ANZAC Day match and the move to have many more tiers of national sides for NZ development and AFL 9s. If that kind of growth in support was replicated for a few more years then it all starts to look more achievable.

Pants' suggestion about the stadium in Auckland at Western Springs is very interesting. It has even hosted an AFL match previously. I'm another person who thinks surely Auckland has to be the go in terms of supporting a permanent club. The suggestion that the AFL should support ensuring a venue in Auckland can host AFL matches is very sensible. Where would the Wellington ANZAC Day match concept be if they had no suitable ground? It wouldn't be happening. Read the following article for some background on AFL exhibition matches in NZ and the efforts to ensure Wellington can host AFL matches now through intervention when the ground was being developed... hopefully the AFL tries to get involved in a similar way: Opinion: New Zealand football – a personal perspective from across the Ditch

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Door opening for New Zealand AFL club

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Friday, January 11 2013 @ 09:39 pm ACDT

To be honest I think some of the fault (if any) lies in the reader who may choose to get momentarily excited and think it means 100 new clubs or something like that. The data is what it is. Exposing kids to the game through Auskick equivalents is very worthwhile and worth measuring and should be reported in the overall total. If people want a more specific focus on the numbers playing school or club footy then sure, try to dig a little deeper (and we will) but I don't think it's fair to say the overall total is unreal or fluffed up. That's just my take on it anyway.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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