IC11 Men\'s Div 1 Grand Final - Ireland\'s Double Glory

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IC11 Men\'s Div 1 Grand Final - Ireland\'s Double Glory

Authored by: dantez
on Monday, August 29 2011 @ 10:54 pm ACST

I think the mid-term (10 year) strategy is to have a sanctioned continental tournament each year, and an International Cup every 4 years. The top 4 sides from each region (Americas, Oceania, Europe, Asia/Africa) play off in the International Cup. And bet that the AFL will at some point roll the dice and hold it outside of Melbourne (possibly in an emerging market) to generate interest. But for it to be a true tournament, there has to be an amateur Australian team. No players that receive payment for playing permitted (therefore eliminating AFL and VFL players). To balance the scorecard a little, non-Australian paid players (eg. Tadhg Kennelly, Nic Naitanui) may be eligible to play for thier home country.

It will lift the standard of the overall competition, encourages teams to first win in thier own region before coming to Australia to get belted (eg. France competed, but they've never even been close in EU Cup 9-a-side let alone 18-a-side).

IC11 Men\\\'s Div 1 Grand Final - Ireland\\\'s Double Glory

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Tuesday, August 30 2011 @ 10:29 am ACST

I agree with Dantez that an Australian side needs to be considered. Although note that when you say they can't be paid players thus ruling out AFL and VFL, remember that many players get paid across Australia, certainly at state league level but also below. I suspect the highest paying state league would be the SANFL, followed by the VFL then WAFL. But there are several leagues in Victoria that could be considered semi-pro, and even in the "amateur" league in SA some players are paid.

Nevertheless, I'd like to see an All-Australia amateur side, say U18, selected and play against Ireland and PNG, to test the waters. If they still win by 30 goals then the international game is not ready yet. But we need to test it to see. Ironically the Australian Amateur Football Council already selects a side like that, U23 I think, to tour Ireland. For some reason there is a disconnect with getting them to play the top nations.

But note that at the International Development Forum the AFL did flag sending more teams to overseas competitions, so hopefully that is followed through and will address part of this issue of exposure to higher standard Aussie sides, see International future - Foxtel Cup and 250,000 players

However the biggest issue about whether they move to qualification etc is whether the AFL and the nations want to exclude teams. It was written above as though having France there was a bad thing (and I'm just using them as an example therefore). But they were tremendous for the tournament in terms of camaraderie and culture, plus they played some good footy to make it to the Div 2 grand final. It also gave the AFL a chance to immerse the French hierarchy in some Aussie Rules culture and learn about the AFL system, build contacts etc. Plus by having more and more teams the event gets bigger in terms of visitors which makes it more attractive to the host city and something the AFL could make cities bid for.

So the big question is whether to try to make it elite and smaller in terms of participating nations (but presumably bigger as a spectator event with serious promotional budget) or have it grow bigger in terms of number of nations and therefore marketable to a city that way (which in turn still costs more to run)? A choice has to be made. My feeling is the AFL will stick with the latter at least for 2014.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

IC11 Men\\\\\\\'s Div 1 Grand Final - Ireland\\\\\\\'s Double Glory

Authored by: Rog
on Tuesday, August 30 2011 @ 05:27 pm ACST

If anyone cares, my alternative ranking system based on the Elo ranking system looks like this after the IC11

1. Ireland 1454 points

2. PNG 1420

3. New Zealand 1387

4. USA 1224

5. South Africa 1216

6. Nauru 1187

7. Fiji 1080

8. Great Britain 1062

9. Tonga 1016

10. Samoa 994

11. Denmark 980

12. Canada 956

13. France 947

14. Peace Team 914

15. Germany 910

16. Sweden 890

17. Croatia 890

18. Iceland 820

19. Japan 770

20. China 762

21. India 688

22. Finland 671

23. East Timor 666

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Rog
on Tuesday, August 30 2011 @ 05:31 pm ACST

Forgot Spain at 24th after East Timor

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Harley Vague
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 10:07 am ACST

IMO it's still too early to include an Australian men's team but I suggest the way to go about it would be to hold a lottery from amateur clubs that are willing to host international sides or have an affiliation with an overseas league .

IMO it's time to include overseas women's teams in the nationals .This wpould be a big boost to women's football here and overseas .

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Harley Vague
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 10:32 am ACST

The frequency of the IC should ultimately be decided by the players themselves.It's opportunity versus cost .I can see a growing importance of European and Oceania Cups ,more important for the promotion of the member countries .than the IC .So there is logic from those wanting to increase the spacing of the IC and logic from those wanting some "qualification" for the IC .But in some ways the IC is more important to the 2nd division and newcomers .It validates ,rewards and encourages those countries that they are truly part of Australian football world .The French team has been used as an example .Well IMO they (and we)have benefited greatly from them being here more than an appearance in a Euro event .Hopefully that will change and they will become more competitive in European competition .it's interesting that the Germans have not as yet seen the value in the IC .

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Cam Homes
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 11:05 am ACST

Cos789,

I agree with you that the AFL should have done more to create "brother/sister" "host" clubs for each of the Nations that participated in the IC. The awareness just in Australia that would have generated around the country would have been of immense value to the code (especially in NSW) before the IC had even started.

I had an conversation with an avid footy follower only recently and when I told him about the IC he laughed at me and said "you're kidding me". He did not know about it and was amazed when I told him it was actually the 4th IC. He was even further amazed when I listed the countries that were involved and he could not believe that all the players were nationals with no expat Aussies playing.

When Denmark and France were mentioned he just shook his head and said I was just feeding him a cock and bull story.

I believe there are hundreds of thousands of footy followers and football club members and officials out there whose reactions would have been the same.

Promotion of the IC at this grass roots level certainly would have been so valuable because very little made the national media/press. There was virtually nothing in the Sydney press as I asked my daughter to check the papers there for me.

Cam

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Harley Vague
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 11:53 am ACST

What's worse is that I met a couple of Swans supporters going early to watch the IC game at ANZ .They wanted to see more but couldn't find the information .In Royal Park I was talking to guy who happenned by . He was blown away by the whole event .Knew nothing .In Sydney the media mentioned the peace team a bit and Izzy with Tonga but nno practical details .Didn't catch much of the media in Melbourne but it did seem all after the event . I got tired of the same conversations ."I'm going to watch the International Cup ......Australian Football...No... Aussie Rules ...No.....Australians are banned from playing...18....Well there could've been a lot more coming ....No...Blacktown with the finals in Melbourne ."

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Cam Homes
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 09:32 pm ACST

18 suburban or near Sydney country footy clubs hosting one of the national teams with a bit of a warm up match before the cup started and barby etc. between the players. Just wonder how many spectators(from the host club's players, officials, members and friends and families) just might have made it their business go to Blacktown(at least on one day) and watch and support the team that they had hosted. it would have numbered into hundreds I reckon. A few more hundred than those that did go because of their connection with teams(whether national or familial) would not have gone astray by the sound of it.

Hundreds more Aussie footy followers would have been made aware of the competition thru this grass roots promotion and at not a lot of cost to the organisers either.

A hell of a lot more than were made aware by the major media/press. Every local newspaper would have had a write up about the visitors coming to town/footyclub, again at no cost to the organisers.

By the way, were any crowd numbers recorded and published??

Cam

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

IC11 Men\'s...

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 10:20 pm ACST

The only crowd figures I'm aware of were that the AFL said about 2000 people passed through the gates at BISS on Game Day 1. I assume that doesn't include players and officials. I supposed 2000 spread between 2 grounds with people coming and going over the entire day means you'll only ever have maybe 100 people tops at any one ground at any one time, which is about what I saw.

Most of the grounds are not gated so no official figures would be collectable anyway.

In terms of relationships with local clubs, I know in 2008 the AFL put the call out for volunteer clubs, not sure on the mechanism this time. I think there are quite a few that did occur this time you just don't read about them. We mentioned a few along the way as we came across them.

But most local clubs aren't going to supply a big spectator base. If you have such a relationship then how many people will care enough to go, and how many of them will be playing on the weekend simultaneously or busy and how many at work on a weekday etc.

So I think there was a bit of it about but doesn't translate into 1000s of fans, maybe 10s of fans per team.

Certainly helps with awareness amongst the footy fraternity though. An official did mention to me that Sydney folk were in many ways more receptive than Melbourne folk to the whole idea of international footy.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

IC11 Men\\\'s...

Authored by: Harley Vague
on Thursday, September 01 2011 @ 09:38 am ACST

As you say local clubs aren't going to produce spectators mid week or if their W/E games clash ,so games underlights ,curtraisers and curtainfallers would help .Even though there were sizeable crowds spectating at times just about all spectators had some connection .The Tongan community was visible in both Sydney and Melbourne supporting their country as were a lot of other spectators which is good of course but we need more of the general public .IMO Sydney is more receptive to the international flavour whilst Melbournians obsess with "the standard" .

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

IC11 Men\\\'s...

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Thursday, September 01 2011 @ 10:27 pm ACST

10 fans per team is 180 fans that did not turn up. + 40 for the women. I seem to recall that two of the womens matches were underlights or twilight games 15-20 fans per team to those matches?? roughly 230-240 possible fans we know weren't there because it wasn't tried.

Same deal in Melbourne = around 500 spectators who didn't go.

All a bit as tinka said the attitude seems to be about what might not happen instead of what just might happen if it is tried.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Brett Northey
on Thursday, September 01 2011 @ 11:07 pm ACST

But I'm saying that there were at least a few affiliations. For a full discussion as to whether it would or wouldn't work, and whether it was or wasn't tried, we'd need to know how many, but not something I'm contemplating chasing.

So I agree it would be good, it's just not clear if it did happen or not, I just know it was attempted in 2008 without any real crowd impact. Sounds like a good idea, not sure it makes a big difference in reality to crowds. But where it is useful is building contacts, potential exchange programs, support etc.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Ronk
on Wednesday, September 14 2011 @ 08:33 pm ACST

I agree. I am quite shocked that the AFL did not do more to publicise the International Cup, especially in Sydney where the matches were played at Blacktown and it would be an ideal tie in with the launch of GWS.

The AFL is supposed to have great clout with the media but they didn't use it. I have an Indian friend living in Blacktown (where there is a huge Indian population) and he said he and many of his countrymen would have loved to see India in action if they had only known it was on. There was zero publicity in the ethnic media as far as I can tell.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Authored by: Michael Christiansen
on Thursday, September 15 2011 @ 06:51 am ACST

From the publicity perspective, the AFL has been great this time around, the AFL website carried much more content with frontpage links all the time. Brett Kirk spent the best part of the year roving the world and reporting back via his diary blog on footy outposts, and upon his return he did the media rounds - however, the local media in the main still doesn't know how to handle the International Cup, and 4 IC's in, people still have to stress 'No expats'.

The irony of course is were the AFL to run a 'world cup' like RU, RL and even soccer - then, expats playing, people playing on the basis of parentage or even grand-parentage - that's the norm.

Sadly too many people go on about what the IC isn't. Instead of focussing on what it is.

re ethnic based media coverage, from the Indian perspective, there were snippets in BeyondIndia (at least on line, I don't buy the paper!!). However, like many things, you often need to know about it before hand to look for it. This article shows that the local (Melb) Indian community was engaged with the side during the event. Where I work thelocal paper ran a story about the French Coqs in town. That there were events put on for visiting teams clearly shows that there was a level of knowledge/promotion prior to the event to facilitate the organisation. What needs to happen though is that more people educate their mates about it over the next 3 years in preparation for IC14. And perhaps the Indian community in Australia can do more to fund the Indian rep team rather than enthusiastic amateurs.

re 'affiliation', back in 2008, the AFL initially was trying to engage VAFA (VIc amo's) teams to 'host' international sides, but, progressively through the build up, the AFL clubs got more and more interested (despite the late Aug/early Sep timeslot - i.e. clashing with last rounds and early finals). However, Tonga for example, in Sydney got there 2 weeks out and trained and some players played with Campbelltown Blues in the local comp.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

IC11 Men\\\\\\\'s Div 1 Grand Final - Ireland\\\\\\\'s Double Glory

Authored by: Cam Homes
on Wednesday, August 31 2011 @ 10:13 am ACST

Regional Championships are very important and help promote the game in the host country, and they are great for prestige for the winning country. The travel cost to the participating nations is more often a huge burden especially where long distances are involved.

SO I wonder if a number of 3 match test series(as happened between Tonga and New Zealand when the Oceania Champs fell over) is not a better option for the time being.

The advantage is that only half the number of teams are travelling in that year(the home sides travel the next year) so costs are less for the different leagues over any 3-4 year period.

Just need to try to have nations that are relatively evenly matched compete against each other so there are few blow out type games. Three very close matches will tend to create "showdown", "rivalry" situations between the nations which can only be good for promoting the sport in these countries.

Cam

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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