Cape Town canned - again! - World Footy News

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Cape Town canned - again!

Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 09:15 am ACST
Contributed by: Troy Thompson
Views: 3,856

The AFL has again canned the Cape Town match that was originally to have been played between Collingwood and West Coast earlier this year. Back in December 2008 we reported that the match would be deferred for 12 months, but it seems that the AFL believes that the global financial crisis is still biting hard on many and they have again decided to defer the match.

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Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 11:08 am ACST

Ouch!

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Troy Thompson
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 11:37 am ACST

I am beginning to wonder if the next IC could be put back a year too?

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: WFN Administrator
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 04:59 pm ACST

In reference to a comment that has now been deleted (i.e. not those above) - a reminder that this site has a policy of constructive criticism and respect. As such abusive comments are deleted. People are free to criticise people and organisations but simple abuse is not tolerated. We've seen unrestrained abuse and dishonesty ruin at least one other forum to the point that they are no longer able to assist the cause we all support which is the growth of Australian football, so we make no apologies for moderating this forum.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Stephen Anthony Funder
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 05:13 pm ACST

The canning of the match in Cape Town again is appalling.Its this dithering,fence sitting,spineless,risk averse inaction which explains why Australian Football has attempted to get a foothold overseas before and invariably failed.The financial crisis has not stoped the AFL from moving ahead in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast,nor should it,but when they are presented with a golden opportunityto develop a potentially booming market ripe for Aussie Rules at minimal cost compared to other markets,they immediately fallover at the slighest adversity.I thought the AFL administrators had some much needed gumption and vision but this decision clearly indicates they haven't.Its a disaster.
Stephen Funder
Stafford
Qld

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 05:43 pm ACST

I know how you feel. My reaction when the first one was cancelled was certainly that it was a very bad sign. I guess this cancellation, or continued postponement, bothers me a little less. The first one was essentially confirmed and all systems go, so will have created a lot of disappointment, whereas this time it was never really promised to occur and was probably never likely - if the global financial crisis stopped the first attempt (sponsors pulling out) then nothing will have changed.

It is quite understandable in some respects when you break it down. There is a lot of criticism mainly from Victoria about money being wasted on overseas trips, even the International Rules which supposedly pays for itself through sponsorship. The AFL has several ailing clubs and has to justify to them the money it spends because at the end of the day, perhaps unfortunately for the game overall, the clubs can rise up and overthrow. The AFL was at pains to warn clubs to reduce their costs and vowed to do the same themselves. So if sponsors pulled out then the only other option would have been to spend a lot of money they had promised not to spend.

I think GC and WS are go because the AFL convinced the clubs it was in their long term interest - an extra game per week and more TV revenue. There was a critical meeting leading up to which the clubs were very critical - they came out glowing and all aboard expansion.

But as I wrote at the time that Cape Town was canned, it really is disappointing for the message it sends and because I think it's just the time when a cashed up sport can take the initiative and push forward when others are hesitating.

Like you say, Aussie Rules has failed in the past because it hasn't sustained the effort, when things got tougher they bailed out.

I've been told by many people it is not an issue, but I do worry that the soccer World Cup in South Africa in 2010 could rattle the FootyWILD program there. Let's be honest, FIFA can do a lot of rattling if they want to.

I guess what I will look for is, okay, the showpiece has been canned, but is the grassroots stuff still there, is it still expanding? The information this year was that it was one of consolidation, with modest growth within the existing structures in the 4 provinces. I would certainly hope to see that then start to expand in 2010.

Given the political realities the AFL faces, I think what we're looking for pragmatically is a stronger show of leadership on the issue. It has sensibly grown its international commitment, slowly bringing the clubs and public with it. At some point, just like over the GC and WS expansion, the AFL may well face a powerful test of its commitment and then we will see whether the key people have the courage of their conviction. I guess they've decided this game is not the time and place to make a stand. If I put emotion to the side and look at the growth curve of the last 5 years, it is just a blip.

That's how I see it anyway. Contrast it with a lot of good things they are doing in Oceania. The sum of the parts is still overall a positive growth in a tough year for most organisations. I think 2011 will be critical. Hopefully no excuses of the global crisis, and an IC year. And the proposed exhibition in Shanghai is also the other key game I'm keen to see confirmed.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 06:27 pm ACST

Since my comment which summed up the situation perfectly was deleted (read censored), I will elaborate.

I think these ridiculous games the AFL keeps playing with South Africa is an absolute disgrace. It shows complete disrespect and vision for our game's future from the powers to be.

Experience even at home with Tasmania has made it blatantly obvious that the AFL cares about only three things - television audiences, money and talent. Now this short sighted, arrogant and greedy message from AFL House has spread to South Africa, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand. While some of these interests are compatible to a small extent with game development, on the whole the AFL offers only fools gold for these developing nations. For a governing body it is simply not ethical behaviour.

FIFA are putting their money where their mouth is in South Africa but our governing body of our game is chasing television money in a limited market with two very expensive white elephants. The AFL has to come to terms with the fact that it is a little fish in a tiny pond that is both drying up and giant whales are jumping into. So this is an unfathomably short sighted decision.

It may please the AFL to know in a year when it and the media were been bleating of a coup de grace over rugby league that NRL crowds and TV audiences are at almost record levels while the AFL's are in steep decline. And you can't put it all down to fixturing and the global economic crisis.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Aaron Richard
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 08:49 pm ACST

Not really relevant, but if I can be a pedant for a moment, you do know that "coup de grâce" means a mercy killing of someone who's already mortally wounded? I don't anyone at the AFL thinks it has performed a coup de grâce on the NRL.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 09:58 pm ACST

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Officially the line is that it will take more than one generation. However there are some people very high up at AFL House who are so convinced that league is rubbish that they are blind to the challenges that they face. That is why they've already spent so much and will continue to do so - because they think defeating league is a cakewalk. They still assume rugby league fans will convert in droves simply once they see it. Why do you think they paid $3 million for Karmichael Hunt ? But can you imagine rugby league becoming a popular sport in Melbourne ? That is as likely as AFL becoming popular in western Sydney. Its a war that can't be won.

If the game continues to grow in South Africa, then expect many more people in NSW and QLD to take an interest. Its the good old cultural cringe. The flow ons of the game's popularity in PNG is already having and effect in QLD - at a time when the Lions are at the bottom of the ladder. But without the AFL's full support, it will not continue to grow as fast or faster than Queensland or New South Wales.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Wednesday, September 02 2009 @ 10:14 pm ACST

As you know Sean all that was censored was name calling, but let's move on.

You make lots of statements there in those last 2 emails. I'm curious what your reasoning is behind them.

You're a big fan of spreading the game more in QLD and NSW. You've stated before that international development will help that cause. It's in your bio on this site right now. And I agree, to some extent, but the primary driver will be investment and clubs in those states in my opinion. For many years I've been hoping the AFL will take the plunge and add second sides, in my opinion it was the logical thing to do that would create the rivalry required to spur on many aspects, so I was delighted to see them announce it. If you think they are white elephants and don't want the new clubs, how do you propose they fast track the game in those states. Surely you don't think world penetration and a resultant increase in interest QLD and NSW would happen within 30 years? What exactly is it that you think will bring about the growth in those states that you desire?

Also, are you saying PNG and NZ have been badly done by this year?

And is the small decrease in minor round crowds this year greater than the underlying statistical variation of the last 20 years? Are NRL crowds relevant? Is it a one to one war to take a regular patron from one sport to another?

What are you referring to when you say PNG's success is helping interest in Brisbane? I must be mis-reading your statement it sounded like you are suggesting PNG's growth or success in footy has somehow helped the Brisbane Lions AFL side be more popular? Obviously you can't be saying that, I'm confused.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Jake Anson
on Thursday, September 03 2009 @ 02:29 am ACST

There is a fringe within our community that plays up a life-or-death struggle that Australian football is engaged in, and I don't believe that sensationalism does any good for the sport.

The AFL is an entirely different beast to FIFA, so comparing their commitment to sports development is silly. For one, FIFA is an international body, guaranteed revenue from international tournaments and founded for the express purpose of developing soccer and coordinating international fixtures. The AFL is charged with organizing a national football competition and its development portfolio is a responsibility that has been assumed in the absence of an international governing body wealthy and influential enough to adequately perform the role. You can hardly blame the AFL for focusing upon the development of the Australian national competition when the development of football overseas is tied to the financial success of the game in Australia.

Markets are globalizing and people all over the world watch the AFL on a weekly basis. The AFL is hardly a 'little fish in a tiny pond' - it is the largest fish in a mid-size pond at worst. Australia is a very dynamic sporting economy. There may not be a large population, but the standard of living ensures that there is a disproportionately lucrative sporting market in Australia that the AFL enjoys primacy in.

By investing in QLD and NSW, the AFL is ensuring that it maintains its #1 position and will expand its domestic exposure, which bodes well for the international scene eventually. In the mean time, the number of clubs overseas are growing healthily each year without substantial support from outside, which proves that our grassroots international programs are financially viable and sustainable without AFL help.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Thursday, September 03 2009 @ 02:21 pm ACST

Brett, QLD and NSW have had teams for almost 30 years ! And very little (apart from some premierships) has changed since Warwick first pulled on the pink boots. If adding another unsupported team was the solution, shouldn't they have done it 30 years ago ? There is only true rivalry if there is passion - and you can't simply manufacture passion. Even if you did manage 1 blockbuster game a year during the good times, you've still got another 20 to play!

Personally I don't think these states are 30 year prospects, they are are 100+ year prospects. Even with billions of dollars spent it won't happen in my lifetime or probably the lifetime of my kids. Who knows where our game will be by then. Though I do believe I think you could create a vibrant international Australian Football scene with more investment in less time. So the money is wasted IMHO and greater growth potential lies overseas.

Anyhow, you're used to the concept of passionate support for footy in South Australia, and most South Aussies and Vics care more for local sport (like AFL) than international sport. If you'd lived in Sydney or Queensland you'd know that footy is still a very small scene and virtually the only sport they watch is international sport. The first thing most people ask is why isn't Australian Football an international sport ? Because it isn't there is an automatic mindset that it must be crap - regardless of how good it actually is to watch or play.

But when a guy from overseas or even an indigenous player from a remote community is playing in a local league, everyone knows about it and it becomes quite a big thing for promotion up there. Sometimes bigger than a homegrown talent making the AFL. Look at Dunstall, a Queenslander most people up there didn't know from a bar of soap even though he regularly kicked 100 goals a season. But players like Mal Michael have captured their imagination and changed their perspective of the sport. Queenslanders have an affinity with PNG and islanders and vice versa so yes, it has lifted the popularity. In the Brisbane private school system islanders get scholarships to play rugby and they are looked on like gods by the locals. But the AFL chose Karmichael Hunt (a guy I'm pretty sure you'd never heard of) because he is an islander. I can tell you once the islanders really get into footy, you're pretty much home and hosed in Queensland. Players like Canada's Scott Fleming are also continuing to have an influence but a game between Queensland and PNG at senior level would be a promoters wet dream. I mean why do you think the Gold Coast is the only club keen to take a punt on the PNG boys and a Kiwi league player - because they know the huge promotional benefits.

Sydney is different but similar - more Mike Pykes and a legitimate international played there will definitely help.

Anyway enough said, but to sum it up I think biggest problem is that AFL people just don't have the capacity to listen, and that's why I'm no longer interested.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Thursday, September 03 2009 @ 03:20 pm ACST

Yes, I had heard of Karmichael Hunt. One of about 20 players I'd heard of.

If you believe that success of PNG has helped boost the Brisbane Lions then up to you but I'm amazed you could truly believe it. The Lions have had declining crowds whilst at the same time a few Papuans have started to make it into the local league - which only existing footy fans would be aware of. But this year they have a new coach (their favourite son Michael Voss) and have played exciting footy, making the finals for the first time for several years. Kind of a no brainer as to why crowds are up for the first time in years.

If you think Scott Fleming is making a difference then with all due respect to Scott, that is an even more bizarre view. He played what, one season mostly in juniors in the state league in 2008 and then returned to Canada I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong. It would seem to me to be a pure fantasy to suggest that he would've had any influence whatsover, the kind of big talking line that discredits the credibility of the international push.

If QLD and NSW people will only start to jump on board when there is a thriving international game to the point that it is semi-pro or pro game then perhaps we are doomed because that's a 50+ year process. But I suspect that getting exposed to the game as kids and seeing how wonderful it is, and slowly changing the culture of schools to have more teams so that it becomes acceptable to play it, that is what will bring our sport up to a more widely followed game in those states.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Personally I think things are mostly headed in the right direction.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Friday, September 04 2009 @ 01:12 pm ACST

I think you need to break the habit of trolling comments Brett. I never said it was behind the rise in crowds due to making the finals !

On a side note I don't think you should assume that Queenslanders start switching onto AFL because the Lions play an exciting brand of footy ... any more than Sydneysiders switch off watching just because Demitriou says they play ugly. There are other factors in this market. A 6 goal game from the Victory doesn't get droves of Melburnians following soccer either.

What I was saying is that if our sport had have lost ground internationally instead of gained it, the low point for the Lions would have been a lot lower.

The Lions haven't bottomed out as much as they could have considering the giant bandwagon element. There is a baseline support in Brisbane which also relies on rugby fans accepting AFL for what it is.

Hunt started following the Lions because of players like Michael and I believe that if they hadn't played for the Lions that even with the money on offer Karmichael would never have considered the switch to AFL.

Back to topic with South Africa - here is living proof that it doesn't have to be a 30+ year process. The simple fact is that there are now nearly as many players as the Northern Territory in just 10 years - similar numbers and timeframes for PNG. That is phenomenal growth with such little investment. For the AFL to pay it lip service to markets willing to pick up our game in favour of hostile markets is quite frankly insulting.

There are 4 million people in Queensland growing at 112,000 a year.

There are 50 million people in South Africa growing at 384,000 a year.

Do the math.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Saturday, September 05 2009 @ 12:47 pm ACST

There was no trolling there Sean. You made some outlandish comments and so I asked you to back them up, which you couldn't.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Sean Finlayson
on Sunday, September 06 2009 @ 04:23 pm ACST

With all due respect, the only thing outlandish here is the AFL's appalling attitude to international development.

They must be very proud to have such strong apologists on this site.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

Cape Town canned - again!

Authored by: Brett Northey
on Sunday, September 06 2009 @ 10:43 pm ACST

You made a connection between current crowds and international football. It seemed completely unreasonable to me so I asked you to back that up. That seems to have fired you up yet you seemed to shift the debate sideways to a publicity picture of Karmichael Hunt.

But I guess this was always going to come to a head - as you know I'm very big on reasoning and examining both sides of a story and the whole issue of the AFL and international development is not the black and white, in my opinion, that a few people such as yourself strongly believe. Without their major support of South Africa and PNG and AFL Oceania in recent years the game would be a lot less advanced internationally. I believe making that case is just being honest and rational. It's very easy to just shout insults when there's any kind of setback. If the overall trend is very much upward then throwing the baby out with the bathwater doesn't seem to do anyone any favours.

As requested in your email I'm happy to end this here.

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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Brett Northey - Co-founder and Chief Editor of WFN

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